Featuring
Patrick Brewer, CFA
SurePath Wealth Management
What does it really take to start and grow a successful financial planning firm—from zero to something real? On this episode of XYPN Radio (now Behind The Advisor), I’m sitting down with someone who’s walked that path at full sprint.
My guest today is Patrick Brewer, founder of SurePath Wealth Management, a fee-only firm based in Austin, Texas, that grew from $0 to over $250,000 in revenue in just 13 months. Patrick didn’t stop there; he also launched a niche arm, SurePath Physician Services, and runs Brewer Consulting, where he helps fiduciary advisors scale their businesses with intention.
Patrick and I dive into what pushed him to launch his own firm, the biggest lessons he learned in that first wild year, and why adopting a team mindset is non-negotiable for growth. We also explore why advisors need to treat marketing and business-building as core duties, not side quests, and how that shift changes everything for your success.
Tune in to hear Patrick’s story, his strategies, and what they mean for you as an advisor building the firm you want.
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Listen to the Full Interview:
Watch the Full Interview:
What You'll Learn from This Episode:
- The key to growing your firm faster.
- Why Advisors Should Have a Team Mindset.
- How to get potential clients to see the value of financial planning services.
- The problem with typical marketing funnels.
- Where to start with building an audience.
- What will increase engagement levels when you market?
- Which platforms actually produce a return on marketing spend?
- The first thing you should think about once you’ve decided on a niche.
- What most advisors should focus on if they’re under $100 million.
- Patrick's best advice for someone starting a financial planning firm.
Featured on the Show:
- Patrick Brewer, CFA | LinkedIn
- Register for XYPN LIVE
- XYPN VIP Community
This Episode Is Sponsored By:
Read the Transcript Below:
welcome to xypn radio where your host Alan Moore brings you into a community of Fe only financial planners who want to profitably and successfully serve Gen X and geny clients if you're ready to get the knowledge you need from leaders in your field learn from Forward Thinking advisors and take action on your own goals xypn radio is the show for you here's your host hello and welcome to this episode of xypn radio I'm your host Alan Moore and today I'm excited to have Patrick Brewer on the
show today Patrick is the founder of sh path wealth management a fe only financial planning firm based in Austin Texas sh path wealth management also has a niche subsidiary sure path Physician Services which focused on you guessed it Physicians after career stance at Vanguard and DFA Patrick ended up growing his firm after launching with zerar in Revenue to over $250,000 in annual revenue in just 13 months in addition to running his practice he provides consulting services to financial advisers through his
consulting firm Brewer Consulting Patrick and I talked about a lot of different topics ranging from his time at Vanguard and DFA his attempt to buy another raia which ultimately didn't work out and then led to him launching his own firm and his path to $250,000 in Revenue in just 13 months Patrick is building a different type of firm than most advisers we have on the show preferring to focus on building the business instead of being the lead advisor so it's really interesting to hear what he's up to early on in the
process you can find any of the additional resources that we mentioned during the epode at XY planning network.com 130 also be sure to go to XY planning network.com viip to join our private group just for xyp and radio listeners it's the community of advisers we've all been looking for that's there to provide support when we need the most best of all it's free I encourage you to check it out again that's XY planning network.com viip without further Ado here is my interview with Patrick he hey Patrick
welcome to the show man thanks so much for being on alen thanks for having me buddy happy to I'm excited to have you on just in the conversations that we've had via email and before we started recording there's going to be a lot of topics to cover today so hopefully we can squeeze it all in and if not always have you back on the show to dig in more so give listeners just a quick overview of where you are at today professionally sort of the the business or businesses that you have your you know how many
clients where you're located that sort of thing and then we'll go back and and sort of talk about the career path that led to the business sure man so I'm located in Austin Texas my primary business actually businesses are sure wealth management which is an RA got a couple people that work with me in that we've been operating for about about 18 months now a little bit less than 18 months and it's been a fun ride as you as you're aware um having uh coached a lot of advisers through the uh the XY
Planning Network process I'm sure and then just out of necessity I feel like we launched a company called Brewer consulting which focuses on helping fiduciary advisers serve more people mainly through marketing and sales strategies so that's kind of where where my focus has been and then the ra has grown pretty well over that 18mon time frame I think we're at about about 15 million in assets under management about seven in assets under advisement through 401ks and we've just been really trying
to aggressively grow that and then as I mentioned a lot of the stuff that we've been doing to grow our practice has been in the digital space so we we spun up a separate company to help serve advisors and teach them how to leverage online marketing to actually work for them instead of them just tossing money into the fire and burning it it's been a it's been a pretty busy 18 months for us so you said we and us so who who else is at your firm at this point yeah yeah so I have an operations associate it's name's
Ryan he does a lot of the onboarding client paperwork technology and integration and then focuses on basically helping advisers get up to speed with our marketing offer so he has two responsibilities one on the r one part of his responsibilities on the ra and second is the marketing firm and then we have my partner Tim power who focuses on the sales side so meets meets with most of the clients on the front end with the raia and is primarily responsible for getting them to the point where they're qualified and ready
to have a discussion with myself to see if we can kind of bring them on and then we're in the process of we got a lot lot of irons in the fire so we're bringing on a CPA I don't know how deep we want to go on this but we're bringing on a CPA to start doing tax preparation and planning locally in Austin so we're going to launch an entirely separate marketing and kind of sales division for that and then I'm actually replacing myself as the lead advisor in sh path we're going to be bringing on a CFA cfp
who's much more qualified he's 48 he's got a full head of gray hair looking awesome exactly what the clients want to see they don't really you know necessarily want to resonate with a 32 year old guy who's trying to take over the world so I'm going to be removing myself from the actual advice side of the business and focusing mostly on marketing and Strat strategy and then we'll probably be bringing on a couple other people next year as we we kind of scale up in both firms no that's awesome
the the one question I I'll ask and then we can we can dig into some of those other pieces as well but with the CPA so are you GNA put them on salary and you just include this as a service offering or are you bringing them under sort of they're going to run a subsidiary and and they're a partner sort of how are you structuring rolling out you know tax preparation as part of your service model yeah it's a good question I went back and forth on it for a while to try and figure F out the best way to do it
initially I was thinking well if I just hire somebody younger who can be on a salary that might be the best bet but I really needed somebody to drive that part of the business because as you know it's it's different than what we do and there's a lot of there's a lot of different Tech and a lot of different process that needs to be evaluated so we're going to be working on the backend to empower that CPA to basically just do tax preparation and front facing advice with the client the way we're
structuring it from a compensation perspective is they're going to get a percentage of the revenue on on the tax preparation business and at some point they may share in the wealth management and insurance Revenue that we generate with the relationships that we have mutually between our tax focused business and our you know our planning focused business initially we're just going to have them be part of our raia as sh path wealth management we're just going to Market as one entity we're
going to gauge the success of that business line and if it's working really well we're going to roll out probably shpass CPA Group in 2019 for tax season 2019 but for this year we're figuring it would make more sense just to keep it simple and Market as sh path wealth management and just have her handle the service delivery aspects of the planning and prep all right fantastic well we'll we'll talk more about that so give me sort of the the rundown of your career because you have you know you said
you're 32 uh your resume sounds a little bit like mine where it doesn't look like you can hold down a job so tell me about sort of your path to to where you are today sure man well I graduated in 2008 and as you know it's not a Fant fantastic time to be searching for a job with the markets kind of melting down around me the finance degree so I took a job at Vanguard and I ended up in the institutional institutional Services Group where I was basically helping plan participants with their 41k so I would
get like a hundred phone calls a day with plan participants basically telling me that they wanted to go to cash so that was my introduction to the financial advice or the industry and after I took about a hundred of those calls I just sat there thinking I just remember driving home after the first day and I'm like man this this can't be my life this is just way too intense I can't be talking to a hundred people a day and just selling them out of their Investments and going to cash but a lot
of these people had no framework because they had never been given any real advice they were just operating based on what the world told them they needed to do which was to be scared to be uncertain so I started to look for a different way I started to do a lot of research and I applied for initially a rotational program at Vanguard where I was going to rotate through internal audit Corporate Finance fund accounting and I I didn't get accepted the first year because there was like a thousand
applicants for one position but I decided I was going to get it the second year so I got my CPA while I was on the phones at Vanguard and I applied for the rotational program the second year and got it went through a couple of the rotations and quickly realized that I did not want to be in the mid office I just didn't enjoy audit or fund accounting or any of that stuff I'm just I kind of delegate the details so I started looking for a better way because I knew I wanted to be uh on the front
end in the a client facing role kind of influencing the outcome so to speak and my my mom actually had moved to Austin Texas about three years prior to me kind of getting to this point where I was searching for another position and she was working at dimensional fund advisors she was in the Technology Group so she didn't have a great sense of what they did from an investment or process standpoint but she met a bunch of guys in the financial advisor group and had told me like hey I think you would be a
good fit for this you might want to apply and just interview so initially I was hesitating I'm like oh man I don't want to work with my mom that's just weird but I decided to take the interview and I loved everybody that I met with it was just awesome guys great investment philosophy great approach it was pretty much exactly what I was looking for because I knew I wanted to be front-facing so I took the job at dimensional and started at the ground level I was an associate work my way up
to a regional director and throughout my time at DFA I was there for about four years consulted with hundreds of advisers some in the broker dealer Channel some in the independent space and ranging across sizes you I had clients that were 10 million in assets all the way up to a couple billion one of my relationships while I was there with supporting luring Awards so I got to see a good kind of subset swath of the industry while I was at DFA and after about four years getting my CFA and kind of working my way up as as high
as I could go at at least at the time in the organization I started to get a little bit antsy you know how that goes Allen you just decide that hey this wasn't really what I thought it was going to be you know I can kind of get my work done in a few hours a day and I just felt like I needed something more so I ended up looking for the next thing and and what I settled on was trying to build a massive rollup of DFA affiliate advisors and then basically hiring in my colleagues at dimensional who would make good
advisors in creating this huge raia so that's what I thought I was going to do at age 27 like a prideful naive 27y old would do all about having more confidence than skills at times lots of confidence not a lot of humility so I ended up going into it and we acquired a pretty large advisory firm was about 200 million in assets up in Sacramento California and let's just say it was a really good learning experience so you said we acquired did you have a partner to help fund the acquisition or I did it
was actually one of my clients that I had worked with at dimension they were kind of new to the advice space but they saw an opportunity to basically affect that Vision which is to acquire a bunch of advisory firms and kind of pull them into a shared infrastructure model and you know bring people in so it was one of my clients that I was working with at DFA so they put up the capital for for the acquisition and my contribution was basically to move out to Sacramento and do all the boots on the ground Sweat
Equity work and uh kind of start to manage the relationships and you know carry out that Vision that we we mutually had at the the start of the relationship so without getting into too much detail there let's just say I learned a really good lesson the one thing I learned without a shadow of a doubt is I only have one speed and that is 100% on at all times and everything has to be efficient because at the office in Sacramento there was like three working typewriters and the process was kind of in my opinion a
little bit dated typewriters and and honestly I could have just coasted and be become pretty wealthy just kind of managing the expectations and the relationships and just kind of what was already there because it was a really successful firm and a lot of really good people but I just couldn't stop like I needed to fix things and that just caused a lot of a lot of issues with everyone at the firm so definitely learned a really good lesson ended up kind of selling my interest in that company after about a year yeah can I
ask about that because that's an interesting structure where you know you're putting in Sweat Equity someone else is putting up the capital so how did you how did you determine or how did you get equity in the deal sort of what was your yeah what was my contribution yeah well I I get the contribution just because you were Sweat Equity I mean it's it's a huge part of it but like how did can you tell me like what was the negotiation process like for you to become an owner when you weren't putting
up capital I think it was just the fact that I was really confident that I was going to be able to create more value for the shareholders and I've always been pretty good at negotiating so I think that went into it it and also the fact that I sourced the deal and the owner had a had built an emotional connection with me and not with my partners so I did have some leverage there I think that's primarily the reason why they decided to go the equity route and then also I had a pretty good job at dimensional too so if I was going
to leave and become part of a a rollup you know attempt let's call it it would have to be a pretty good deal otherwise weaving dimensional is kind of not many people do it right right well yeah you went from one cult to another so uh and I say that in just just because I I'm a big fan both Vanguard and DFA uh but they they do have very strong cultures both internally as well as just sort of their philosophy on investments and that sort of thing so usually you're either in or you're out I you know there's not
a lot of in between folks are like I sort of like DFA yeah it there it polarizes right which is why it sells because people are either as you said they either tune in or they tune out and the exclusivity of it lends itself to people committing either one way or the other so okay so you sold your interest in the ra were were you able to sell back to the the to your funders or did you find someone else to come in and be boots on the ground to get wealthy with typewriters or could be a good business name wealthy
with typewriters I like it trademark that I actually ended up selling it back to my partners and you know they were more interested in in kind of growing that business and cultivating it I just it wasn't a good fit for me so I ended up selling it back to them and then I moved back to Austin Texas and I didn't really know what I wanted to do at that point I just I debated going back to dimensional and just continuing to work for a company but at that point I felt pretty confident that I was unemployable
and I was probably right on that so I ended up actually doing something completely unrelated to our industry I was frankly a little bit jaded on financial advice wealth management and our industry after that experience because I felt like it just without getting into details I just felt like I was kind of you know taken advantage of in hindsight I was just naive but I needed to do something different for a period of time so I ended up creating a company called Simple Medicare which is focused on providing seniors with the
correct Medicare coverage totally different than wealth management and what I thought I was going to build was a basically a quoting tool for people to be able to sort their options when they were entering the the years in which they had to select a Medicare Plan and we we set out with the best intentions we did a lot of research got some developers and we after about six months we we finally got an MVP up but once we started to get deeper into the client profile we realized it wasn't an issue
around creating a tool that would allow people to adequately sort their options it was more of a lead generation problem because getting people to buy health insurance whether it's under 65 or over 65 the hardest part is just getting in front of them because it's one of the most competitive markets in the world everybody's running lead generation for healthcare because it's it's designed to be specific and it's transactional which means that there's going to be a lot of
competition so I actually had to shift all of my focus to figuring out how to drive leads online in a way where I wasn't going to run out of money in two months so that kind of led me to researching all of the different the different ways to get attention online so I started focusing on Facebook ad strategies LinkedIn everything in order to try and build any level of consistency around selling Medicare services and after about a year of kind of tinkering with stuff I finally was able to put together a
process that was that allowed me to consistently get new sales through a call center environment and then we also had some inperson workshops we would do as well and while we were kind of building this business I started to realize that I hated Medicare it took about a year but I just I I I didn't like the fact that a lot of the agents were unethical that it's very sales-driven it's it just didn't feel right to me it's it wasn't where I wanted to spend my time but I really
enjoyed the the acquisition side of it the marketing side of it so I ended up switching the focus of the Medicare business from just selling Medicare to using it as an entree to get in front of people solve a problem for them build trust through execution and then introduce the idea of working in a more comprehensive way to solve problems around retirement income tax and all the traditional stuff that advisors do when clients get to be a little bit older in that life stage and we saw some really
good traction with that so from there I kind of just continued to introduce other types ofet marketing funnels and approaches to grow a wealth management firm and that's kind of how sherpath was born 18 months ago as we decided to just give it a shot and it ended up working then we just started to grow from there now do you have your cfp or are you a CFA what what are your designations at this point yeah I have a CFA and a CPA so no no cfp I I don't think I could bring myself to take another
exam no kidding so when did you I'm assuming this CFA came while working at at dimensional since it seems like everyone there has the CFA yeah I needed to put the time in if I was going to move up but honestly I did not enjoy the process I don't know if anyone really enjoys the process of studying for the CFA I kind of brute forced it burned out once I level two that was brutal but managed to get through it and then CPA when did you when and why did you sit for the CPA just out of curiosity that
was back when I was at vangard the the only way that I could figure out how to differentiate myself when I was taking phone calls and participant services was to get a designation because otherwise we we're all homogeneous there was no way for me to be different to get that accelerated rotational program and I didn't like accounting particularly I didn't really like that too much either but that was the fastest way for me to differentiate myself so I just figured I'll get it that's when I got it okay
cool I was just curi I was just thinking through the background so when you started sh path you really correct me if I'm wrong but you really hadn't done financial planning you really had been on the how to build the business side not necessarily the lead advisor working with client side is that fair no experience with planning I didn't really get introduced to to any of the clients in Sacramento that was part of the issue but I had to figure out the financial planning side of it once we started our
raia so talk to me about the the decision to start the ra sounds like you again you have the a unique skill set which we don't have a lot of in financial planning which is marketing and actually Beyond just getting into actual inbound marketing strategies and that sort of thing so why start an RA at that point and how did you go through that process did you find like did you start it with a partner initially or were you lead advisor sort of out of the gate I was the lead adviser my colleague
Tim who's not an equity owner in The Firm but does a lot of the the sales and the relationship management now he was I met him while I was still running the Medicare business and we kind of jointly decided to start sh path when we saw that people were more open to working with us after we solved a problem for them through Medicare planning and then from there we just reinvested all of our time and our energy in continuing to acquire obviously more clients and refine our marketing strategies so it's
interesting so did if you don't mind me asking but did T not want Equity or he just you were putting up the capital and he it just wasn't a conversation I'm curious why he isn't an equity owner at this point he might be at some point he didn't really Express a strong interest at the beginning I think I don't honestly we we both went into this with the mindset of we're not sure if this is going to work you know and I knew deep down that I didn't want to be I didn't
want to build the 100 client 100 million doll practice that's just not how I'm wired but I saw an opportunity well I think honestly the reason why I started the ra is because I wanted to kind of prove it to myself that we could start an raia from Ground Zero with absolutely no National Market no connections and really no help and get it to a sustainable level he was on board with that mission so I think at some point you know Tim may be an equity owner but we've got multiple businesses now and
his focus is kind of split so recently it's been just a process of figuring out what what people want to do and what what's their leverage purpose right what's going to allow them to have the most level of satisfaction in their work and Tim is honestly the type of guy who just likes to interface with people right but he doesn't like to follow up he doesn't like the relationship management side of it he just likes the sales and the emotional connection side so that role to me is less of an equity
owner because there's less strategy there's less decision-making it's more front-end compensation to incent that behavior gotcha yeah it's interesting all the different ways that this gets structured I was talking with some guys at at Mariner wealth which is I don't know what they're at now 2030 billion and no maybe they're bigger than that anyway based out of Kansas City because I was there recently but they have an entire business development team that exactly how you're set up this is all
they do and they just get a percentage of Revenue I think it's 20 or 25% in the first year and then 10% ongoing and they don't do any financial planning all they do is go get clients which I don't hear of that a lot how it has to be structured the challenge what I've realized with our industry is most people today think that they can start a firm by themselves but what I realize pretty quickly is I'm only good at a few things and if I meet with clients it drains my energy super fast so I'm not
going to grow nearly as fast if I have someone who's energized by meeting with clients and and the the front end of the sales process I think that advisers should really have they should be teams there's a lot of guys that are out on their own right now that are really talented but only talented at maybe 20 to 30% of what it takes to build a 100 or a billion dollar firm the key is just finding those synergies and setting yourself up to where you're doing the right thing every day or the thing you
should be doing it's going to allow you to grow faster it's going to make the pie bigger so I think there's a lot of a lot of advisers out there that just want to build that firm by themselves but they're not it's not because they're not good enough it's just it's a difficult business it requires like a lot of different skill sets in order to to make it successful and to get scale yeah and I agree assuming that the adviser is looking to build a a multi-person business you know I think there are a
lot of folks that set out that say hey look I want to be me and an office manager me and a an assistant and that's all I want you know Justin rush comes to mind you know he's a guy that he wanted he wants to build a book a business and and that be it uh but to your point if you really want to scale if your thing is like I want to build a hundred million a billion dollar business there is power in specialization because you can't be great at marketing and sales and onboarding and client relationships
and running the business you know like there all five of those are different skill sets yeah but I would argue that if if you're good at Marketing in sales you you'll never get to a 100 million in assets because the whole the whole way the way that our business is designed today and has always been designed and that's the reason why we have a lot of advisers that aren't great business owners because you're incented for bringing in new clients so the ones that actually get to that point are usually
the ones that are good at marketing they're good at sales so it's it's difficult for to create that hundred million business if your superpower you're unique and uh your value proposition what you're good at is financial planning right it just it's very it's harder for you to do that because there is a sales there is a marketing component to getting to that hundred million level it's interesting because I see this I see both sides of this and it's the interesting thing
about financial planning in most businesses you are absolutely correct in most Industries financial planning is this weird industry because we see firms grow despite having zero sales ability and I'm not saying they grow as fast as they as they could because if you bring in somebody that's great at sales you see you see the potential but I I I sometimes I fall back on it's just a supply and demand issue like we just don't have enough advisors out there and so the fact that we have a massive
shortage of advisors just allows folks to grow a business that wouldn't normally be able to and some of it like and I think about the xypn conference I mean this is a conference and our organization is a ton of startups like we should on average have wedding an 80% failure rate in four to five years of businesses and yet we don't like I I don't meet any xypn members that are shrinking they're all growing they may not be growing as fast as they want to but they're still growing which may lull
some of us into complacency just because again like we can grow it without focusing on some of these issues but you know we can do better for sure depends on I guess what you're trying to build I mean if you're looking to grow accidentally just because there's a higher level of demand than Supply I would argue that that would be arbitraged away as people start to either enter the space or the people that can market and sell start to take your clients because that means that there's value there that's on the table
and it's going to come to the person who creates the best business model to monetize that value so I would say if that exists right now which I don't necessarily know if it does you know you would know better than me because you consult with hundreds of advisers that are at that stage in their business but I just feel like there is a land grab for market share right now there's an opportunity over the next five to seven years to build a truly Dynamic personal brand that will allow you to put the
distance between you and everyone else if you do it the right way I I just I don't know if sitting on your hands and I know that's not what you're advocating is the best approach right because it I think that you will face stiff competition if if you run your business like that I agree I think the competition's coming I don't think the competition is here yet you know here in Montana of the joke is you don't have to be faster than the bear you only have to be faster than your hiking buddy and I
liken that to marketing and financial planning because you don't have to be the world's greatest marketer because everyone else in our space is just so awful at it that just a little bit of effort I mean $3,000 for a website and blogging once a month actually puts you ahead of 90% or 95% of financial advisory firms that are out there I would just say that a lot of that so with marketing the challenge that a lot of advisers are going to face and what I've seen in the industry is blogging is
one way to get attention but the problem is blogging is only good if you have an audience so what most advisers are terrible at doing is first building an audience if you don't have an audience you could blog hundred times a day but you're not going to be able to have anybody interact or read your content so I feel like our industry has done a terrible job of translating how people Market in person to how they should Market online so if you think about a traditional sales funnel what most
advisers are if they're doing this at all I would say only two to three% of advisers have even got this far but what most marketers recommend that you do on the on the digital side is to set up a landing page or a website offer a a piece of collateral in exchange for an email address right and then you drip on people through email and you attempt to build a relationship you attempt to get them on your list so they can read your blog post but the problem with that is it's too linear and you're trying to
push people through a marketing funnel instead of building a relationship with them so what we've done and what we're advocating for is this idea of building a relationship with someone in a nonlinear way actually requires more than just a linear marketing funnel so I think that most advisers if they're blogging if they're using things like hearsay or just pushing out noise to Their audience what they're missing is the relational connection that can be established through video through you
know platforms like Facebook there's just there's an element of the relational side of our business that is missing to what most advisers are doing with their Marketing Online said another way it lacks engagement like you can either talk to people or you can engage in a conversation and you are absolutely correct that a lot of times by just saying you know blog or be on social media what people end up doing with that information is they just share a bunch of stuff and and never really actually
build that relationship and engage With Their audience yeah it's it's just noise you know our our industry is is notorious for just pushing noise out to people I I I kind of view it like this if you're what I see most advisers do on their social profiles is like walking up to somebody at a coffee shop and handing them a page from The Wall Street Journal and being like hey are you are you ready to work with me yet there's some good information on 529 plans there you know there's they don't spend any time
becoming relevant to Their audience all they do is just push out noise all day and I I think that that's because that's what most of the Consultants are telling them to do it's not their fault it's just they don't know a better way so the first step is really becoming relevant to someone and then building that relationship in a nonlinear way through your social profiles and building an audience so that when you create high value content you're actually able to as you said engage them in a personal way
so that when they when they come across a life event or something triggers in their life where they require advice they see you as the the most logical decision right because you've already spent the time time in the energy building a relationship with them now are you a niche guy and and having an avatar and a really specific client Focus or are you more of a broad generalist in your coaching with advisers I I love what you guys have done with the niche I know you've been an advocate for it for a while and I
think that it absolutely works so we actually I didn't mention this we have a separate uh DBA it's called sherpath Physician Services so the way that I've structured our practices and the way that I kind of consult with advisers as far as marketing goes is there's a couple different approaches the first one is you can take an industry specific focus and Market nationally which is what most of the people in in XY Planning Network or most of the advisers who have a niche do right so you would in our case focus on
Physicians owners surgical centers and you would structure your marketing and your your approach to basically work with anyone around the country and deliver the services virtually through your computer right and that is a perfectly acceptable way to do it but I think you miss one thing and that is the human connection which is what people are really searching for I know there's a lot of Articles and a lot of stuff that says that people just want more technology they just want to meet through video conference because they're
busy and I agree with that to a degree but people are getting overwhelmed with the amount of noise and and stuff that they're subconsciously seeking that human connection aspect of what we do which is ultimately what we've done all along is connect with someone emotionally and help them throughout their life so I think that that approach works we've been adding about two clients a month to that business just using online marketing but we're also testing a different approach an approach
that has a more local focus and it's the way I think about it is it's local and pain focused so there's a lot of different pains that people come across in their life some of them are related to Medicare to tax to cash flow planning for business owners or budgeting for you know young High earners there's a lot of different problems that people could have and you know the thing with most people is they don't actually think about their life holistically they don't sit back and try and generate a level of
awareness about what their real issues are they just kind of go about their life transactionally so what we've done in sh paath wealth management we're building an online kind of awareness sales funnel a video sales funnel you leveraging multiple platforms to essentially dominate The Market in 2018 for tax planning and preparation locally because nobody really understands that process of building that relational connection so I think you can do it either way I think you can take the industry National approach you know with
SH path physici Services it's for us all over the country Physicians young docs and we generally start with student loan Consulting and then we'll upsell uh holistic planning tax planning setup in S corporation whatever it is but you need to be able to build that trust through execution to be able to get them to want to do more higher level planning and then on the local side it's it's kind of the same thing so I think you could you could do it either way yeah I think to your point and this is
some of the we've talked about this a little bit on the show before but you know the word sometimes what am I trying to say here when we say Niche people immediately hear professional Niche right doctor lawyer accountant and that is not what we are saying because there are a lot of different combinations of focuses that you can have you can focus on specific pain points that a wide swap of people are experiencing the same pain point and you can be the expert in solving that pain point it can be a life
stage it can be you know folks getting divorced folks getting married having children selling a business starting a business it can be like I said it can certainly be professional it can be faith-based Ben wask on the show recently talking about integrating faith-based principles he's going to meet with clients from a wide range but but they're looking for an adviser who understands their faith and and is willing to integrate it into their financial plan instead of finding them on it there's so many I mean there's an
infinite number of options when it comes down to it it's just having you know our whole thing is you have to focus more you have to focus down more than just we work with young professionals you know because it just doesn't work it doesn't resonate with anyone and you can't build a relationship working with everybody yeah you're just nois then yeah and the key and then after that right in instead of just picking a niche and and blogging right because if you think about if let's say I decided I was going to work
with Physicians and I stood up a Blog and I just started writing you know stuff about financial planning for Physicians how many people are actually searching for financial planner doctor right like this the search searches on those terms are pry low so you have to think about a creative way to build your audience if you're going to be focused on a niche whether that's local and pain Focus whether that's a profession whether that's a particular company the first thing you need to be thinking
about once you've made that decision and that's a big decision and of itself one of the things that we spend an hour and a half with most advisers on we thought about a lot on our own was okay what are we actually trying to build because I feel like a lot of advisers never really step back and have any level of intention ality around how they're structuring their practice and what life that's going to create for them so you know that's the first step is really stepping back and figuring out the exact
type of practice you're looking to build and then after that it's how do I build an audience and if your answer is you just blog or you run Facebook ads to your website or you attend networking events it's not going to work very well because you don't have a sustainable mechanism for building an audience and delivering content that's going to actually get them to a point where they trust you they trust the process and they're ready to move forward so I think where most advisers struggle is on the
audience building side where do you recommend advisors start whenever they say Hey you know I have my focus I have my avatar if you will so I I know the pain point or the professional or whatever I know the person I'm trying to serve sort of what is your where's your starting point on audience building it depends on where they live so if you're going to be focused on Physicians then most of them them are going to live on either LinkedIn or Facebook the only real platforms that we found to produce
any type of return on investment for marketing spend is Facebook Google and Linkedin but depending on the type of audience and the type of business You're Building you're going to either start on LinkedIn first you might start on Facebook first or you might be running targeted Google campaigns a lot of it just depends on how your audience consumes information and the type of business you're trying to build so generally my recommendation is to start on LinkedIn and then to build the relationship through Facebook so we have
some waves where we essentially grab our audiences on LinkedIn we can retarget them with video ads to basically build trust over time so that when those people are ready like I said they're they just kind of see us as the natural best option because I feel like there's two if you think about it at a high level and you have a hundred people in a room that are just regular people right some of them high in at work some of them not one to two% of the people in the room are going to be active SE
Seekers of Wealth Management Services to some degree right and then 98% may be looking for final advisor at some point in time or they may not so with the one to two% we take a totally different approach than we do for the 98% because if you mark it to the whole the audience as a whole and you just say here's an ad click it well you're going to get a lot of unqualified traffic that's going to drive your your cost up so the key is to Market to the one to two% that are actively in market for the service one
way and then to build relation ship a relationship and relevance with the 98% in another way that way when they're ready and they're in market for the service they're not coming in with a packet of papers from Napa and interviewing 47 advisers and saying well what's your fees what do you charge what services do you provide you know it's it's I've been seeing your stuff and you've basically you've become relevant to me they're going to say hey I've just
been seeing your stuff and I was just wonder what it looked like to move forward I don't know exactly what you do but it just seems like it'd be a good fit so just shifting that conversation is what I feel advisers need to focus on online I think it's a great way of putting it because there are I have said before the the way I built my Ra was just focusing on the 2% it was it was focusing on being wherever people were looking for a financial advisor because convincing the other 98 that they need
help is a long road that is a very long play and I think sometimes advisers get caught in this cycle of like oh I'm going to go talk to people and convince them they need an advisor and it's it's just not going to work it's the short term that but you can be building a relationship with those folks while also focusing on bringing in folks that are looking for an adviser because honestly those are the folks that that pay the bills and keep the business open long enough for you to actually be around
when the some of those other 98 folks are you know seeking a financial advisor yeah and and the key is figuring out a mechanism for getting in front of the one to two% at a cheaper clip than your competitors because the problem is the one to two% everybody goes after them them and the people that are going after them are like Edward Jones Merl Lynch Morgan Stanley and they can monetize the that audience a lot more effectively than we can you know if you're doing fee fee only planning and you're starting
there and you're trying to pay acquisition costs for the one to two percent that those players are willing to pay you're gonna you're gonna have a bad time because they're GNA outbid you for those people's attention so the first part is figuring out how do you get the the attention of the one to two percent in a way that's different from what your competitors are doing and then as you said how do you build a content-driven campaign that's going to get the attention and the desire and
build the relevancy with the 98% when they're ultimately ready to move forward and then you just have to accept with the 98% that there's a level of Silent Roi you're not gonna a lot of advisers want to track things but the the sales process and the marketing process for those people that aren't ready to to buy right now it's nonlinear you know they're going to see an ad they're going to read we're going to watch a video they're going to get retargeted by you
know something else and then eventually six years later they're going to be ready to move forward right so you just have to be in the game long enough to build that relationship yeah I saw a study recently that Edward Jones the vast majority of their marketing budget now is digital marketing because they are so locally focused because that's Edward Jones thing right they put a they put a guy or gal in a in a small town and then they go knock on doors until they find people that you know just lost
their job to roll over 401ks but they're using local base search any town if you look up financial adviser Edward Jones is going to rank high now that being said the thing that they are missing out on and they may change this focus and and this will no longer be the advantage is that Edward Jones maril Lynch any of these bigger companies ultimately have zero Focus they work with anyone with money and so I think that that today is where advisers can quote unquote win in terms of attention because they can have
Focus content that actually engages instead of just getting eyeballs so Edward Jones is just going to get eyeballs to say oh hey here's a financial advisor no one goes to Edward Jones and thinks oh yeah this is the company for me they really understand my problems people just think oh they're another financial advisor and so they're going to have to spend a lot more money on conversions than some of our advisers that do have a true Focus because again they're able to engage with hypert
targeted content and therefore the advertising is a little more focused so it's a win again I don't know if that will forever be I I doubt nothing's forever it won't forever be a way to you know quotequote beat Edward Jones but is a leg up that advisers can take right now the way the way to beat Edward Jones is to be a dynamic personal brand so the the the challenge that our competitors have is that they're just they're just big right they can't communicate like we can communicate so what I've seen is
when you shift and our every advisor wants to communicate like a business for some reason but if you communicate from your business profile or anything as your business you're going to get almost zero engagement why is that the reason why that you're GNA why you're going to get zero engagement is because people connect very very very uniquely with other human beings so just that simple tweak in your mindset and the way that you Market if you Market as a human you will get higher levels of Engagement you
will pay less for clients you will be more relevant and you won't have to buy attention from other people you know another thing that I see is think about a guy like Dave Ramsey there's a lot of advisers that have to pay to basically leverage Dave Ramsey's attention because he has spent time and energy whether we agree with him or not to becoming relevant to a very particular audience and now you got all these advisers that have to pay him a thousand bucks a month for smart Vestor to essentially leverage
that attention so that I feel like more and more advisers if they don't spend the time upfront to build that audience to cultivate those relationships they're going to have to spend more and more money buying attention either trading their time or their money for attention and that's the only currency really that we have right now is attention and it's it's at an all-time low because of all the noise so there are so many areas that you can do with marketing you know we we talk about this because we love
you know obviously Michael and I just love getting in and talking marketing and branding strategy and all of that and when we make our list you know our Dream sheet of all the marketing things we could be doing in our world it's targeting financial advisers that that are interested in starting their own firm the list is endless I can employ a hundred marketers and still have more projects for them to do so how do you as an how do you help advisers and how do you personally prior prioritize which I
guess projects will get funding in the focus because ultimately there's always going to be limited resources well I think it just comes down to what actually moves the needle like most people will invest in marketing but they're just going to throw their money into the fire pick because they don't really understand what's going to get them the results that they want so we've just created a very specific blueprint that starts with audience building and then it goes into lead generation for
the one to 2% because a lot of advisers the first thing that they need is at bats right if you're just starting your practice you need help with sales training and you needed bats and you need to build an audience so that's step one for larger firms you know you you probably need to build an audience because most larger firms have just grown organically due to the fact that they were differentiated 10 years ago and they delivered great service and that's awesome that's going to continue
to happen but they've kind of run the course on their organic audience so step one building the audience step two if you're a new firm is to monetize the one to two% in a diff a way that's different from your competitors and if you're a larger firm it's about creating that relational connection right to Foster the relationships and tell your unique story to your ideal Prospect so we have a basically a process for doing that through Linkedin through Facebook through direct email through retargeting
but it's all kind of laid out in a sequence so that advisers don't do things out of order what I saw is a lot of advisers want to invest in fancy marketing technology and analytics before they even have any traffic like there was one guy that I talked to who he spent a bunch of money on HubSpot and was tracking his analytics and he had like 10 unique visitors a month to his website so just essentially lighting money on fire or investing in something like infusion soft which is $200 a month
to do fancy segmentation of your your email list before you even have an email list so the the key is doing things in the right order at the right time and knowing which things are actually going to move the needle and which things are just a waste of time and energy and this is just my opinion but with the the state of where things in financial planning industry buying in my opinion buying content from anyone at this point is a waste of money so any of the systems that are out there that say oh
we'll run your newsletter for you or you can put our content on your website and get people's email addresses without naming names of companies just ignore all of those because ultimately one we're just not seeing any results from any of those companies they're not showing an Roi but again you're getting too far ahead of yourself I mean we implemented HubSpot at XY in January two and a half years into the business whenever we actually had you know visitors to start segmenting and that
sort of thing and it's been a great spend it was a it was a good use of money but it would not have been helpful in our first six months or 12 months you know as you're as you're saying for sure you guys do a good job with the content marketing and getting your message out there I mean there's a lot of you generate a lot of buzz in the adviser Community you're doing something right the challenge for for advisers because what you're doing to get the attention of the adviser is much different than
what advisers need to do to get the attention of their Prospect because the the B2B sale is different than the B Toc sale you know you the B2B sale is more logical and when a business owner makes a decision what they're filtering in their mind is is this service going to help me make more money can I serve more people and is this the direction that I with my business ultimately that's what they're trying to reconcile when they decide to sign up for my service or your service but the consumer it's an
emotionally driven sale that requires a relationship to be built on the front end and that's a nonlinear process so when you start doing the same things that you do B2B in on a consumer sale online you're going to lose money because it's more difficult it's more nuanced so that's what we realized and that's why I started our marketing company is I got burned so many times trying to figure out how to Market to Consumers that eventually I just had this to peel back the onion and and
figure it out and I'm learning new stuff every day I don't I don't want to sound like I'm the only guy who has this type of stuff figured out but it is a it is a different process getting the attention of someone for financial planning versus getting an advisor's attention for a service it's interesting I don't know if I fully agree with it only because I can see where it would be on your Consulting side because you're working with existing businesses but oh well over
half of our new members don't have a business and so I think a lot of our marketing has been around it's not around selling xyp and services our marketing is around what does it take to actually start a business like what does it mean to start a business what are the good and the bad and and walking them through the the value proposition of the end result of what we promote it's results focused though right it's focused on you will create a business and you will get this result right and I
wonder if advisers need to be doing more of that I see very little value proposition sales like very little sales is around the tangible values of financial planning we we Market a lot around creating a great life and living your dreams and re and you know being financially independent secure and it doesn't it's hard like it it is emotionally driven and it connects with people like oh I want to be financially independent but I don't think we do the best job of advi as advisers of saying
here's the value of financial planning basically you pay $1,000 you get 2,000 back and we can't actually say that in our marketing but we don't focus a lot I don't think or focus enough on the true value and the the pain points in showing how we solve those pain points the the challenge is most people don't care because they never have to make a decision to do proper planning so what I found the value of advice I think the way I've explained it is it's highly related to the value of the other
person's time because if they're not if I'm not doing it they have to do it so that's step one the other value is the the opportunity cost of a mistake so you know what happens if they don't do these things let's paint that picture and then the third and it's a distant third in my opinion is the value of the service because as you know there's a lot of different technology and other things that can make that service more accessible now some people will place a high value on the service and some
people won't but the real value is in the opportunity cost from the mistake and the value of the other person's time and if they don't understand the if the prospect doesn't understand the concept of Leverage and they're just seeking out a service provider then the the challenge that the adviser is going to face is that service is going to become more and more commoditized as you already know so I think that the advisor needs to do a better job of painting the real picture which is you have the
propensity to essentially make bad decisions at some point in time or you will have to ccel your spouse emotionally about money now how that plays itself out from a marketing perspective it's it's very nuanced and it's difficult which is why most marketers have to lean into the services in order to get people's attention and our carrots aren't nearly as good as other Industries right so by saying you need to do proper financial planning they're going to be like cool bro I'll
do that tomorrow so I hear what you're saying and I agree with you and I wish I wish it was more focused on the unique value proposition and the fact that an adviser is an expert I mean one of the things that D got me to this point is I came out when I started the Raa and I thought oh I have a CFA a CPA I'm really I'm a bright guy these clients will see how smart I am they're GNA once I show them my financial planning process and solve their problem they're going to see how smart I am and it was the exact
opposite I would be in the sales meeting and I would go through right capital and I would solve all their problems with minimal energy and then they would look at me and go cool you solved my problem there's no more emotional connection to the sale so what I found is if you solve people's problems too early or you're too service oriented it removes the emotional connection from the sale and that's the only reason why people are going to make a decision to move forward is if they're emotionally engaged it
remains to be seen what the what the future of the industry looks like obviously and just how the landscape changes will certainly impact the way that advisers have to have to operate in order to be visible and be seen but I think there ultimately online marketing and just Marketing in general marketing is going to have to become a focus of advisory firms I saw I'd have to pull up a maybe we can find the citation for this but I think it was an investment news article that showed Financial Services firms spend two to 3% of their
gross revenue on marketing most Industries spend 15 to 20% you know and it's just again we have been we have been able to survive historically on well I live closest to my to my clients so therefore they will hire me and that was true for a long time that was your differentiation Factor was your office was closer to their office I think we are still in in an era where we can survive on that I just don't think we can thrive on that and it will become harder and harder to survive over time yeah it's it's going
to be more difficult I mean just with Edward Jones think about Edward Jones Edward Jones is essentially bidding up the price of all of the clients that we could potentially get whether they're a good fit or not think about Facebook let's say Edward Jones Marl Lynch Morgan Stanley all these companies move into buying Facebook ads they can afford to spend more money than we can so the only option that we have is to build that audience either in a different way or build it in a better way and I the only
way that I found that works is to is to communicate like a human that way you can reduce your acquisition cost because as you said that a lot of the the the things that people are pushing right now like automate your content curation and hire somebody to write your content for you none none of that works it's never worked it never will work ever in the history of the world because people are craving authenticity they want to see what they want to see behind the curtain they want to see what you actually do
and the all the content that you should that you create has to has to to get to that point has to get to the point where you're communicating authentically whether it's your personal philosophy around planning or how why you became an adviser whether it's you know you sharing a card that one of your clients sent you because you did an awesome job just kind of results share I know we can't do testimonials but just thanking them and then there's also really creative ways that you can use social
media to build better relationships with your clients there's a lot of Articles you you've probably seen these Allen that say that the referral rates in our industry are at an all-time low and my thought with that is the it makes sense one because most advisers are streamlining their service delivery so they're meeting like once every year or twice a year so what happens in that in that Paradigm well the client doesn't remember who you are so you're going to become less referable because you're not
as relevant to them and also they're getting bombarded with information through all channels so they have less and less time and attention so what if you were to run Facebook ads that only targeted your clients expressing gratitude and thanking them for their business and then having them see a video of you thanking them and just pushing out content through video to reinforce that message that you're around that you're you're here you're doing stuff you're going to get you're
going to get interaction from your clients and that's going to go out to their Network so more people are going to see it and also they're going to feel closer to you so they're going to remember to refer so I just I think that our industry for for too long has been designed around this idea of don't meet with your clients because you're not going to be able to scale which I agree with and then communicate with them like a robot and send out newsletters curated spam and all of the above to essentially
I guess build a relationship but not but never works yeah I do I do think the referral marketing I don't know that our clients are referring less I haven't seen that piece I have seen that advisers are not getting the referrals and I've wonder I do wonder if a lot of the break down is in the fact that you know ultimately clients are now going to the internet to validate and what they're finding is an advisor that that they don't like the the marketing feel you know is it used to be like oh my mom
or my buddy told me that you know I need to call this advisor she just call them and you go meet with them and that was our opportunity to sell and now we have this digital storefront that many times is left completely vacant and looks boarded up that folks are driving by virtually and finding like oh like this company doesn't even exist or this this advisor doesn't exist or you know they don't they they work with a totally different client base and it's that's why I I think it's so important to say
who you work with and be willing to stand behind it couldn't agree more it's it's the challenge is that if you're relying on people to find you it's going to become harder and harder and more expensive so it gets back to that whole idea of the audience building you have to have an effective mechanism to build an audience if you don't it's become increasingly difficult to get traffic at all so on your bio on your Consulting page so Brewer [Music] consulting.ms so what was your strategy
for audience building and then conversion to get those clients signed up and I'm assuming that includes parent company as well as the The Physician Focus yeah yeah oh maybe we can go for another hour with this but I'll try and keep it I'll try and keep it short so we started with the Medicare side of the business because we already had that sales funnel up tested structured so the way that we structured the Medicare sales funnel was we had basically video ads that would go out to people that
were turning 65 and they would be Progressive the first ad would basically be around helping that that person that 64 year old understand that they were in in pain right you're trying to illuminate the pain that they face as they age into Medicare it's about a two-minute video and then you offer up some collateral to help them solve the problem the second video goes out to people that consume the first video and says hey you watched a good percentage of that first video here's a way to
solve your problem not all the answers the solutions but here's one way you can think about solving this problem and then the third video goes out and essentially says well you have two paths you can solve it on your own or we can help you solve it if they want it if they want to help solving the problem they could either sit through a webinar and at the end of the webinar it would drive them to a call with an agent to help them with Medicare or they could go to a workshop locally so we were trying
to test both the workshops work a little better again because older older people are just more relationally driven and humans in general are just more relationally driven so we tested both approaches and we started to upsell wealth management to the Medicare clients to get some AUM on the books because I wanted to start with older clients first to build out the AUM base and get sustainable and then shift into seeing if I could crack the code for marketing for younger clients on a retainer basis so after we started to
get some consistency around which took some time took a couple months to get some consistency around this we switched to audience building for surepass Physician Services and here we were focused on younger doctors about anywhere from 25 to 40 that were graduating from school that had massive student loans and that didn't really know where to put their money right and we started by building that audience on LinkedIn we created some automation some rules and some some Outreach methods to build that audience on LinkedIn and then
we started to reach out and get these people to have calls with us so on the call we have a specific sales process to get them to the point where they emotionally commit to wanting to solve the problem instead of us trying to solve the problem on the phone we get an emotional commitment from them to want to move forward and solve this issue and then from there we've brought on probably about two or so doctors a month on a retainer basis to sh path position Services all while still marketing
through sh path wealth management and we introduced a couple other local marketing strategies as well then after about two months two to three months of testing and iterating on our approach with SH path pH services and and our wealth management firm I didn't have like a how am I going to say this so I kind of step back and I'm like am I really building a massive Raa is that what I want to do because I have an approach that will work and I really enjoyed my time at dimensional and I like Consulting with advisers would this
make more sense to open it up to guys that I think can help people right because that's ultimately what we're all trying to do here we're all fiduciaries that are trying to help people solve problems the challenge that we face is we can't get our unique message in front of enough people and there's the industry is just polluted by salespeople so how do we get in front of people in creative ways to tell our story where we can connect with them and we can get them on board as clients and I'm
thinking like I've already had a failed secession attempt once and trying to build this massive rollup I don't I'm not great with the human interaction like the relational side of of the business I'm more like on the strategy side so I figured let me spin up a one-page website offer this up to advisers and see if anyone would be interested that was kind of my thought behind it and there was a lot of people that were interested so from there we just kind of kept iterating and growing
and kind of training them on the same strategies that we've used and we've gotten great results I mean we've gotten advisers that have brought on multiple clients a month that have become part of our community which which has been great and we're just continuing to test and evolve so I I feel like where we fit in the world is I'm committed to continuing to grow the raia but it's not going to be me meeting with people it's going to be somebody else that's coming on next
month and I'm gonna test every single marketing strategy that we do inside of the Raa and then I'm going to make it available to people in our group when it's been tested and give them the blueprint and the strategies in order to execute it so that we can get fiduciary advice out to the masses so that they don't continue to take in the same message and think that we're all homogeneous it's difficult you know there's no right there's no there's no 100% right way to do it but I feel like
we're most of the way there and the way that I got there was by failing a lot and spending a lot of money and just reading a ton so I know that you've done the same thing as far as getting XY Planning Network to the degree where it's at and dude I can't believe you've done that so fast but you know it's pretty amazing what you guys have been able to accomplish we hired a really good marketing person you know it's much of the our success could it's just Jin like you know it's just kind of funny
that you don't have to overinvestment tight you've gotta got the you have to have the operations set up but the first thing that you need to understand is that you run a marketing and sales organization and you need to figure out how to build an audience so the way that we did it in our practice is not the same as I would necessarily recommend somebody else to do it it really just depends first on what you're building how you're structured what you want out of your your business and then
that will dictate the platforms and the strategy that you take totally agree well Patrick thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show I'll I'll close out with the final question and that is if there's one piece of advice one thing that you've learned through this business building process that you wish you could go back and give you know younger Patrick that was maybe looking at starting his own financial planning firm what do you think that piece of advice would be slow down I'd
say and maybe the second piece of advice would be get people that can fill out your skill set sooner than later I just I feel like that is the key to getting leverage and creating a business that will ultimately be fulfilling at least for me not everybody wants to work with people I get that but having a a team that is momentum driven that understands the goal and they're operating under their kind of Leverage purpose building things that to me that if I could do that sooner I would have done it sooner
fantastic well again thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show we appreciate you coming on and sharing your expertise and and career path thanks alen I really appreciate it man be sure to join our VIP community at XY planning network.com viip to hang out with other xyp and radio listeners ask questions for future mailbag episodes with myself and kitus and to finally find a community of like-minded financial advisers thanks so much for joining me today we'll see you next time you're not alone and you're not crazy
it's scary starting building and growing your own financial planning firm and that's why we put together a free private Community just for you the cuttingedge financial planner go to XY planning network.com svip or text xypn radio to 33344 and join a network of thousands ready to change the lives of Gen X and geny clients [Music]
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Featuring
Patrick Brewer, CFA
SurePath Wealth Management
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