Coming Full Circle: Relaunching a Purpose-Driven Firm

Alan: Welcome to Behind the Advisor with XYPN, your behind-the-scenes look at the challenges and victories fee-only advisors encounter as they launch, run, and grow their independent firms. Join us for a deep dive into the real life stories, frontline insights and actionable strategies it takes to build a thriving, purpose-driven firm on your terms.

In this episode we're joined by Nannette Kamien, founder of Inspiration Financial Planning. Nanette is no stranger to XYPN. She was one of our earliest members back in 2015 and was on this podcast back in episode 107, which you can find at xyplanningnetwork.com/107. If you'd like to hear more about her career journey through 2017, go ahead and check out her previous show.

After a meaningful first chapter as a firm owner, life threw her some major curve balls and she made the difficult decision to close her firm, work for others, and step away from entrepreneurship. But in 2024, Nanette returned to XYPN with a new vision and relaunched inspiration, financial planning in 2025.

Today she's sharing what it was like to walk away from a business she had built, how she found clarity in that process and why coming back to entrepreneurship on her own terms has reignited her passion for the work. With that Nanette, welcome to the show.

Nannette: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be back.

Alan: Say welcome back. I just, I cannot believe it has been eight years since we recorded last time and it's amazing how much happens over eight years.

Nannette: Yes, it really is. It's been a lot.

Alan: I believe it's called the, is it the history or the illusion? End of history illusion or something like that. But it's a cognitive bias that when I ask you like, where are you going to be in eight years from now? You'll gimme some derivative answer of where you are today. Oh, I'll have a firm that'll be a little bigger and my kids will be a little older and I'll be a little further along in life.

And, but when you go back and think about where you were eight years ago, it's just not even the same person,

Nannette: It's, yeah. It's not even just, it's not even connected.

Alan: I'm excited for hopefully folks listening will go back and listen to the previous episode again. That's 107. And you can hear the different phases of nanette life here.

Would you take a step back and just talk a little bit about the journey to launching and then ultimately deciding to wind down the firm?

Nannette: Sure. So the very short version is that I was a career changer. I decided when I was around 40 to switch careers to be a certified financial planner, I started taking the coursework. I looked for jobs. I was previously in information technology and had a good job at a big company, and just decided I wanted to switch.

And so I looked for jobs and there just wasn't anything out there that made sense for me. I had two toddlers. I had been working from home part-time. Back in the day because in it you could do that. And firms wanted me to come work in their office an hour away eight to five, and pay me $35,000 a year to be a paraplanner.

And I just, that wasn't something that I could do. So I I started my firm with XY. I was the cautionary tale that you and Al Michael have talked about, but and it was something that was really important to me and I. I really wanted to work with people my own age in the same stage of life that I was, and do it in a in a really cost effective manner.

I didn't manage assets to begin with, and because I had no experience in that area, and so I just was doing planning, for a fee.

Alan: Okay. So talk about, you had a lot of life happen all at once. When we were recording this podcast, you were moving across the country and moving your firm. You had young kids since then. We had a four year pandemic that shut the world down for five years. I don't know how long it went on for.

And yeah, I guess talk to me a little bit about how that experience was and how that played into the decision to ultimately wind down the firm.

Nannette: Yeah, so I moved from Illinois to California in 2017. My mom passed away. I went through some personal challenges with my marriage where I ended up getting a divorce in 2021. But that sort of started to. Become an issue in 2019. The pandemic happened in 2020 but in 2019 is when I really started thinking about shutting the firm down.

And that is because, partially because of the personal challenges that I was going through at the time but also because my business wasn't. Successful and I was not making very much money at all. And that was from a combination of factors, just partially because I didn't have enough clients.

I didn't, I wasn't getting enough clients. I didn't have the confidence, I didn't have. I just wasn't, I sucked so, I was a good planner, I think. It's hard to put myself back in that timeframe, but I just, I wasn't doing things that were getting me, I. From the progression of those very early years that are very tough for a lot of people to the building of a sustainable business.

And I was very lucky to be in a study group with Sarah Stanich and one another XYPN member, and she had a firm that was growing and we became close enough that I, I talked to her about, Hey, is there a place in your firm for me? And basically what I ended up doing was folding my firm into hers in 2019.

And working for her firm for a couple of years. And that was, I was very, incredibly lucky to have been able to do that. From the personal side and from the professional side, she had a lot more experience than I did. Her firm was a lot bigger than what mine was, and it was really great to be able to learn from her and see how someone else was building their firm.

Alan: We get a lot of feedback from listeners. They say, we wanna hear stories of the firms that didn't make it. And the truth is, it's really hard to get somebody to come on the show and talk about what they considered to be a failure and that transition. So I'm so happy that you've relaunched because we get to tell the two parts of the story, which is that I always felt like.

Failure, quote unquote, in our business, when you're launching a firm wasn't so bad. We're not a capital intensive business. You're not going into millions of dollars of debt to try to start the start one, like the worst case scenario is you have to go become an associate advisor in an RAA, which is what you're gonna do if you don't start a firm.

Nannette: and get paid a salary and be able to count on a paycheck. And that was really attractive at that point in my life because I was thinking, if I'm getting a divorce and I live in Southern California, I'm gonna need a paycheck. I. And at that time my kids were still fairly young.

They were younger, obviously than they are now. And it just, that was a no-brainer option for me to take advantage of. And again, like I, I don't know, I. I should maybe do a deep dive in a what's the, I don't know, what's the word? Yeah. Retrospective or an autopsy, maybe that's the word I'm looking for on, on what I was doing wrong the first time.

But the bottom line is I wasn't doing something right and I needed to move on, and it was. It was painful to let go of that dream. I was very attached to my brand. I was obviously, 'cause I kept it, I was very attached to the meaning behind it and it was hard to let that go and put my work behind a different brand.

Alan: Yeah, I was gonna ask you that question, which is, what do you think you’ve learned now that makes now the right time to launch a firm? That maybe either you weren't ready for or just weren't successful doing. Can you think back and think of one or two things that like, Hey, if I had done those things differently, if I had known more about that or had more experience in this area?

Or do you think it was just the nature of the timing and where you are at in your life?

Nannette: I think it's just time. There is a confidence that's built af after 10 years of doing this. Okay. But that's the easy answer. I, I had no experience, I had no credentials. I had nothing when I started except for a dream and working for Sarah, and then working for the second firm that I worked for after I left Sarah's firm in 2020.

Two was, I got so much confidence in the work and the sales process and the, just the belief that I was worth what I needed to charge to make a firm financially viable. I just needed time and having extra life experience doesn't hurt either. Because I've gone through so many more things. Yes, I had gone through a lot, up to age 40, but at the end of the day, I've been through so many more things in the last 10 years that I just, it just makes such a difference when you're sitting in front of a prospective client and you can really talk about the clients you've worked with.

I've worked with 150 different clients since then. I've done all of these things. I've got credentials. It just makes such a difference.

Alan: Yeah, there's the old adage that I didn't appreciate experience until I had some. 

Nannette: I like

Alan: I think about myself, when I was launching my own firm, I was like, 10, 20 years of experience. I don't need that. I got this. And then, now that I'm more than 10 years into my career, I look back and I'm like, man, you were an idiot.

Nannette: Yeah. Oh yeah. I look, I looked, I look at myself like that too. But you know what? Good for me. I tried, I. There's no shame in trying something and not being successful at it. There just really isn't. And I think we have to let go of that in, in our society, that there's something wrong with trying and not ma and not being successful.

I.

Alan: I love that because it really is the work we do with our clients. Like we just tell our clients to let go of their career and retire, or change jobs or sell their business or whatever these things are. But for whatever reason. And I'm sure it's some sort of cognitive bias, but like when we have something like a business, we just expect it to be there forever.

And it's like our identity is this and it will be this forever. And that's just not the case for most people. That's just not the journey. So I. I guess, how was it, you've talked a little bit about this and what you learned. I guess any additional lessons that you learned working for Sarah's firm that has emboldened you or empowered you to be able to relaunch the firm this time?

Nannette: Here's the one thing I will say. Both of the firms that I worked for were in growth mode and wanted to become bigger and wanted to add a team concept. And I, through working for both of those firms, I really, still firmly believe that I am best serving my clients, being just me.

I don't have the desire to go out there and build a big firm. I wanna build a firm that allows me to pay my bills and put away money for retirement. And maybe one day one of my kids will wanna take it over. I don't know. But I'm not out there to go out and build something giant that's not gonna be my trajectory.

And it's okay because there's lots of people out there that are doing that.

Alan: Yeah. And that's definitely a different journey when you're in hypergrowth mode and the clients are doubling every year and the team is doubling and it's just like utter chaos. Like it can be really fun. And also just like a, there's a time in life for that, and it is not always when you have young kids that, that's a lot of fun.

So

Nannette: Yeah.

Alan: I guess, was there a moment where. You've shut the firm down. You've gone and gotten a job, you've worked for two firms, you're at this point, and was did anything happen or I guess was there a moment where you thought, I'm, I wanna do this myself? I wanna do this again.

I'm gonna relaunch I guess what happened to push you over the proverbial cliff that this was the right call?

Nannette: Let's not call it a cliff. Okay. Let's call it like a, if the starting line. Okay let's not assume this is a cliff. I'm jumping off. I, there wasn't one thing. Okay. So obviously I kept my URL from my previous firm. I kept my Google workspace. I paid all, I paid for these things for five years.

Partially because I was telling myself I have to keep the books and records for five years, so this is literally what I'm telling myself. I'm like, okay, I've gotta keep all this for five years. And I, I didn't, I wasn't ready to give it up. And then I got, very close to the five year mark of when I joined Sarah's firm was when I started thinking about it.

Seriously. And I, four year or three years post-divorce. Even though I was making a good salary, I was, I literally was finally making what I made when I left my IT career. Okay. Okay. So I was like, Ugh, do I really wanna give this up again? And, but what else am I gonna do? So I turned 50 this year, so it was the sort of the looming big, milestone birthday and I'm like, I may not have another chance to do this.

And. So it just was a couple things that were gyrating in the back of my mind. And I finally felt like I had the experience. I had a really good group of clients that were mine to take with me that I felt like I wouldn't go broke right away, so I'm not broke yet. And so it was just a lot of things.

And so I had all this stuff though that made it so easy. To spin my firm back up. I went to the conference in Minnesota in, or whatever month that was, September, October last fall.

Alan: October, or, yeah, September maybe. I can't remember. Let XYPN live in

Nannette: Yeah. XYPN LIVE last fall. It had been a few years since I had been there. And I just got really excited about the possibilities again. And I was ready mentally to take on that challenge. And it just, again I knew how to write my own ADV. I knew how to get a website up and going. I knew how to do all of this stuff because I had done it before

Alan: And you had a name and a

Nannette: I had a name and a logo,

Alan: Seems small, but like that is just, it's another thing to have to spend a bunch of creative energy on that.

Nannette: And I just, and that's why I was like, my name was good enough and I love again, and I loved that brand and I loved that logo. And I just still loved it. And so I was like, why spend money or mental energy trying to recreate the wheel when I can just do this? And five years from now, if I need to change the name of my firm, I will. But right now I'm not gonna spend time on that.

Alan: So you mentioned that you had some clients you were able to bring over. Can you talk any about how that was structured and negotiated with your employer that you would be able to retain those clients instead of it being a, lawsuit, non-compete nightmare,

Nannette: Yeah. Yes. So I had, obviously, I had brought some clients into my relationships with Sarah when I joined her. I basically brought some of those clients. To the other firm that I went to when I started, and part of my agreement was that my clients I could bring with me and clients I subsequently introduced to the firm I. While I was there, I, that they were also mine. So that was spelled out pretty clearly I thought in the agreement that I signed, obviously. When you leave, there's always a difference of opinion and at the end of the day, I think my, myself and the previous firm owner that I worked with ended up.

Sort of just agreeing to disagree on the language and deciding that it wasn't worth either one of us, going further with any issues. I ended up not being able to bring a couple of the clients that I thought would stay with me, that had been with me since before Sarah,

Alan: Oh wow.

Nannette: And that was it, that's fine.

That's fine. Because some of the new clients that I had gotten have referred me business. So you never know when you're making that transition. Just 'cause they're your clients doesn't mean they're gonna stay with you. And they felt more comfortable with a larger firm. They felt more comfortable with the services that my previous firm was offering.

And that's fine. I want what's best for those clients, especially ones that I had worked with for seven years.

Alan: I know we have a lot of listeners that are chomping at the bit at that story thinking like, how do I find that's like the perfect scenario to be able to go work for a larger firm. Learn from them. Leverage the infrastructure, provide awesome value to the firm, while also building up a client base with the ability to launch and.

I hear this from new advisors joining the network all the time where they say I signed all these agreements 10 years ago, didn't really read them, and now I'm starting from scratch and that's not fair. And, they shouldn't be able to take my clients and all this.

But then five years later I talked to those same advisors and they've launched a firm, they've now hired an employee and what do they do? They have that employee sign the same non-competes that they signed. And I'm like, Nope, you can't, you're just perpetuating the cycle. I get it from a business owner perspective, but if you have that conversation early on, obviously before you sign the agreements then you really can get something that gets closer to a win-win.

Nannette: Yeah. Yeah. And I think if I ever did it again, I'd be even more clear in the agreement language and I'd have the confidence to fight for that. Because I could have done more to protect myself, but at the end of the day, I. It worked out okay and honestly, going into working for that firm was, it was not my plan to go back out on my own.

Alan: Sure,

Nannette: I really wanted a job. I really wanted a job that would just pay me money, and I didn't have to think about it. But again, when you're working for someone else, you're doing it their way and you're doing it under their brand and you're doing what, you're following their vision and I. I wanted it to be more of a partnership with that firm owner, and it ended up being less of what I was hoping for.

And so I, I'm like, again, I'm like, if this guy can do it, if any, all these other people can do it, I can do it too.

Alan: Absolutely. Alright, so we're at a point where you've launched, you've shut down, you've gone and gotten a couple of jobs, and now you've decided you wanna launch your own firm. What did you decide to do different this time than you did with a previous launch that you feel like is is setting you up for success?

This time around with the firm.

Nannette: so first off I'm, I went with partnering with Betterment and with Go Wealth for asset management services because

Alan: that service but outsource a lot of the

Nannette: Yes. So for me I realize that I don't wanna be doing trading myself. I don't wanna be constructing portfolios myself. I don't wanna, I know enough now to know that I don't wanna do that stuff, but it's a critical.

Part of services that clients need. And I, I, everybody can argue whether fee-for-service only or asset management fees are better. I don't wanna get into that argument, but for some people, they absolutely are better off with me managing their investments. And so I knew I had to offer that service.

Alan: That makes sense. 'cause I the most, most, I guess if they're joining XYPN, all advisors are launching with a fee-for-service model. And a lot of folks are planning only and adding AUM, adding investment management is the most common new service added. And so I think they experience that where the passion is around planning and it's yeah, it's a commodity.

This isn't really the value add, but then clients need the service and it's where am I gonna send them to somebody else who's gonna try to take them from me or, retail or Vanguard or whatever? And those aren't great experiences. So to your point it can make sense to bring it in-house and then ultimately outsource a lot of that just day-to-day legwork so you're not quite so tied to it.

Nannette: Yes. And so I had worked with Geo wealth. That was the first descent before when I had my own firm prior. 'cause I ended up adding it in 2019 right before I joined Sarah. And then Betterment, the service had improved so much and we used it in my old firm. It was a good idea to bring them on.

I'd love to be able to just use one or the other, but the bottom line is I have clients that would prefer the name of Schwab, which is who I'm using with GO Wealth. But there's clients that are really better served with betterment and it's so much easier that I'd, it's not that much overhead to have both, that was the, I, that was one major change that I made. The other major change is, I'm gonna say the word niche.

Alan: You can't be on this podcast

Nannette: I can't be on the podcast and not say niche, so Okay. I will have what I'd call a soft niche. Previously I had a niche. I did a lot with helping parents that were. Having kids that were going to college. I actually wrote a book about it in 2019. I really dove deep into that niche at that time, but it was not a good niche.

Okay? It was a bad niche. Nobody, they didn't wanna hear what I had to say. They didn't want the advice that I was giving them. And so I wrote a book to get it all outta my system, and I just abandoned it because they didn't wanna hear it. They didn't wanna pay for the advice, they couldn't afford the advice, and it was just, it was a bad idea. So this time when I launched I'm like, I really am passionate about women who are going through transitions, whether that's divorce or career transitions. Does any of this sound familiar? This is my life for all of these years. And you know what, even widowhood and I got the RICP designation at my previous firm, and so retirement it's all of these transitions that women are going.

Through that I wanna be able to help them through. And women obviously are not a niche, but women over 40. Going through one of these transitions I feel like is narrow enough for me to really focus my marketing and focus my outreach and my clients on, and services on reaching that niche.

Alan: So are these mostly single women or are you working with couples as well? Just the woman is leading sort of the relationship. Maybe I.

Nannette: So I am working with couples. I don't discriminate. If a woman brings a man to the table, I will work with him. But I actually do say on my website, Hey, one of my FAQs is, will you work with single men? And the answer's no. I will refer them out to somebody who I feel like better serves 'em.

Because that's not my focus and I don't wanna get distracted by I don't know. Not that the planning is all that much different, but I just really wanna be able to hone in on working with women. So single women divorced women that are married or in relationships with others.

That's fine.

Alan: Okay. Yeah, and it's so funny to hear advisors talk about their niche 'cause we're still in this point where, in a way we can be a little ashamed of it, 'cause we're like, oh, it's not narrow enough, or it's too narrow or, yeah. Anyway, it's always a fun conversation. But the one thing that I have noticed over the years is that you have to be narrow enough with your niche.

That your marketing makes sense, right? Like we work with everybody is not good marketing, so it's gotta be narrow enough, but it only has to be super narrow. If there's a lot of competition and you are working with a client base that there is. Basically no competition. There are a whole lot more middle-aged women in transition than there are advisors that understand the challenges that they're going through.

And for listeners that are thinking about their niche, and it's like you don't have to be so specific that there's only 50 people in the world with that problem. Now you can do that and it's a great way to build a firm. But it can also be when there's no competition, like you can be a little broader.

And if you, again, you're not trying to bring on 10,000 clients either. So you're trying to build a firm that supports your lifestyle.

Nannette: yeah, exactly.

Alan: Can you actually talk about that and you're in this new life stage, I think your kids are teenagers now. And just how you're designing the firm to support your own great life that, that you wanna live.

Nannette: Yeah my kids are going to be 13 and 15 in September, which is insane. So obviously the parenting challenges are very different than they were 10 years ago. But, and I live in Southern California which is expensive, and so it's, I need to make enough money to pay my bills, obviously.

And that's the first sort of, when I think about the growth of my firm this first year, that's the goal, right? Is to have enough revenue by the end of the year, forward looking revenue by the end of the year that I can pay my. Most of my bills, the bills that are required to be paid, not the e-bike that my son talked us into, a couple weeks ago.

But the bills that require it need to be paid. So that's the goal for the first year, which is very different from the goal for most of, I think, the advisors in their first year because it's way, way higher.

Alan: Yeah.

Nannette: But for me, that's what I have to do, right? So I sat down and I thought, okay, how many clients do I need to add?

I ended up starting with maybe about 10 clients that came with me. I've added maybe eight or nine since then in the last five months. 

Alan: That's huge growth.

Nannette: Yeah, it's going according to plan, which is scary to say.

Alan: That's awesome. That really is an incredible growth journey for the, for being five months into the business.

Nannette: Yeah. And but the, so the, here's the thing, like I have to build this, right? I don't have a choice anymore. I'm not married, I don't have anyone else bringing income in. I got a loan, a home equity loan to give me the runway for this first year because I had to, divorce doesn't leave you more like extra money around.

Okay. And so I have a year to get to pay my bills and that lights a fire under your butt, and I didn't have that the first time, so that's another thing. So I've gotta get to that income. So I had, I'm like, how many clients do I need? What do I need to charge them? How many do I need to add each month, while I'm pulling from savings to, to support my lifestyle.

And that's basically where, what I'm looking at the first year, and then I'm thinking, okay, the second year, I can slow that down a little bit, but I really still wanna be able to do things like retirement contributions someday,

Alan: Yep.

Nannette: even though I'm probably never gonna retire. But that's okay. It, I have a goal for that second year.

Then by the third year, I feel like I'm gonna be really making decent money. And this is something that I can do for another 15 years after that, 20 maybe. And when you multiply, I want, I don't wanna have more than like 70 clients. And when you multiply that out, that's a nice life.

Alan: Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny when, if I were to go speak to a group of, I guess, general employees in their twenties and say, who wants to make a hundred? Who would be happy making a hundred thousand dollars a year? Every hand goes up. But if I ask advisors like.

Who feels they're successful. If they're making 200 or $300,000 a year, no hands go up. so obviously Southern California is a little different. We have some of the same challenges here in Bozeman with housing prices. but it is a reality that we make so much more than the median household income in the country.

Like we really do have the ability, to make a lot of money, but also like our expectations are pretty high, I think as an industry.

Nannette: Yeah. I wanna get to a half a million dollars in revenue. That's my goal.

Alan: That's awesome.

Nannette: That's -

Alan: 1,000,070 clients, that math checks out.

Nannette: The math maths. Yeah. It's eight, seven, $8,000 a client.

And one thing I will say is that I love running my own business. Like I am in my books every day. I am analyzing my numbers. I am. Like looking at my revenue, I'm that part I love doing. So that wasn't ever a reason that I shut down my firm.

That's it, I have an MBA, this is what I wanted. I love this part of it, so I'm very in tune with my numbers and where they need to be and what my expenses are and my revenue and all of this stuff. So that's fun to me.

Alan: That's awesome. Yeah. And something that a lot of advisors just, we put our head in the sand and don't wanna look at our books. But it is really important. Yeah. As we're coming to the end of our time together, what's one tip that you would give advisors who are thinking about pausing or maybe they're a little further in the journey and thinking about restarting their firm?

If you think about where you were, is there any advice that would've been helpful when you were in that sort of, in that moment?

Nannette: I think don't be afraid to switch directions. I think as planners, we are really tied to. I'm gonna put a plan in place and I'm gonna do this regardless of what happens. Okay. And that's been a thing, it's actually a thing that I've become really interested in. I read Quit by Annie Duke. I've read the Tiny Experiments book that talks about, why goal setting is broken and that kind of stuff.

And. Don't be afraid to change directions if what you're doing isn't working, don't just continue to do it and think it's gonna get better, it can, right? Obviously, you have to persevere through some challenge. It's not just gonna be easy. But don't be afraid to look for other opportunities and other options, and do what needs to happen in order to take advantage of those, join your friend's firm.

Find a, a headhunter that will match you up with a firm you never would've found. I would never would've found that job. Without the headhunter that I worked with to that had that relationship and knew that firm was potentially looking for that position. So remaining open to change is so important.

Alan: Yeah, that's awesome. But we didn't talk about it earlier. But nothing will get you more job offers than launching your own firm. It's amazing. Like you launch your own firm and you suddenly go from oh they'll just be a paraplanner to oh, they're a lead advisor. And it's the only difference is I wrote an A DV.

What? What's going on here? That's a little job tip. If you're not finding the right job, just launch a firm and then go get a job.

Nannette: Yeah. Honestly, it gave me the exp experience, the experience that I got, having my own firm, really led me to working with Sarah. The experience with her led me to that other firm position. It all builds, whether you planned it that way or not. I really wanted my previous role as director of planning services.

I really wanted a role with that title because of what I really felt passionate about was the planning. And so that's what I was looking for when I was looking for that second job was that director of Planning Services title, and I was told, yes, it does exist and yes, this is how you find it. So for me, that was the right next step for me. But after having gotten that and working with over a hundred clients in those two years, I was like, okay, yeah, now I can do this again.

Alan: Yeah, absolutely. So last question, and that is, if folks wanna learn more about Nanette and inspiration financial planning where should they go for more information?

Nannette: First of all, my website inspirationplanning.com. And also I'm really active on LinkedIn. I post a lot of content that's not very financial planning. I just try to fly my freak flag and be really honest and talk about things that are going on in my life and my work with clients and because I want, I just wanna be able to be myself.

And so LinkedIn is really the place where you can find me being me. I try to use Instagram and YouTube and I'm just not.

Alan: Yeah, I'm a fan of LinkedIn myself, so I get it. Thank you so much for taking the time to come back on the show and the vulnerability and willingness to just open up about the journey that you've been on and. It's a journey that a lot of folks are facing and they think they're the only one.

And so I appreciate you being willing to come on and share your story.

Nannette: Yeah. Happy to do it.

Alan: All right, listeners, thanks for spending time with us on Behind The Advisor. If Annette's story resonated with you, be sure to subscribe for more candid conversations with XYPN advisors, building firms that truly work for their lives.

Want bonus content and early access to episodes? Head over to joinxypn.com/bta and join our community. Until next time, keep building your firm your way.